the unspoken reason behind "adulting" as a concept is basically a pandemic of anxiety and depression. it papers over mass amounts of people constantly fighting the urge to /just give up/.
there's a whole host of reasons why being alive right now is exhausting, not the least of which comes down to "the behind-the-scenes domestic labor it takes to participate meaningfully in the world used to be free labor that women were forced to perform."
by ignoring the generated value of this "feminized" labor, we're all of a sudden taken-aback at the idea that paying bills, cleaning the house, doing laundry, they're all WORK, it's all LABOR.
it used to be a man would rely on this captive labor. it functionally takes the work of two or more people to get one person out of the house and working for 40 hours a day. it's almost like the nuclear family was designed to reproduce this socio-economic structure. it's almost like that
it's also almost like this highlights just how much being alive means relying on other people. on valuing work that doesn't directly generate value. it's almost like all the generated value in the world is intimately connected with the hidden labor we take for granted every single day. all of these things, it's almost like that. wait it is.
i always come back to the idea of an economy of care. "adulting" is zombie labor. adulting masks a history of misogyny, repression, and cruelty. adulting fills me with revulsion.
why can't we just be adults. adults care about each other. adults do work for one another out of love and respect and care. adults don't buy garbage adulting mugs
@selontheweb that's pretty high praise for a concept of adults that historically doesn't exist for half the population
@hope i'm being utopian here
@selontheweb fair. I think it's interesting to play with the idea fully automated gay space communism in here as well. It's so often an escapist idea. So much rarer for communists: both antique theorists who were all men and modern kids; to really see the amount of responsibility women have taken for the day to day, year to year, generation to generation functioning of the world, and realize that in order to have a fair soceity we all need to take that responsibility on us.
@hope my issue with FALGSC runs into my ecosocialist tendencies (no such thing as post-scarcity, we should be reducing production instead of automating it entirely, etc.) but at it's most utopian, absolutely, it's fun to play around with the concepts that we can liberate ourselves from coercive and purposefully disguised labor
@selontheweb I was trying to put the idea out that I don't think we can, like productive labor maybe , but reporductive really needs people, especially the emotional side. And so it just becomes a "Neverland" concept where people hope for an age they never have to be adults
(I'm addition to the ecosocialist problems, which I think are huge!)
@hope ah i gotcha, i gotcha, yes I'm inclined to agree!
@selontheweb because we're carrying an immense amount of allostatic load in the form of unresolved mental health issues that distort our relationships and keep us from functioning as adults reliably
@selontheweb i love you sel
also I have been listening to an audiobook by an indigenous poet-scientist which talks a lot about gift economies and reciprocity and botany and just... caring, and it has made me cry a dozen times already. I think you'd like it
@selontheweb thanks for this. This is why I’m not “baby” and function much better with people who aren’t either
@selontheweb this thread hit hard
@selontheweb as someone who was woefully underprepared for independent life and ended up being an aro queer, I've always questioned why "millennials can't adult" is such a prevalent mindset, but you hit the nail on the head. Nuclearization of the family and the social life isn't a one-size-fits-all affair and is actively detrimental to many people. Social conservatives like to think the 50s never ended and that there's no need for alternative life structures.
@selontheweb we took the most diverse and connected generation in history, refused to teach them the basic functioning of society, told them that a nuclear family is the only acceptable way to live, then kicked them into the real world and said "figure out how to produce capital or die." No wonder literally every millennial who wasn't raised in a six-figure household has anxiety.
@caymanwent go all the way off, that's exactly it amd it's so frustrating
@selontheweb from a surprisingly young age I saw how the dearth of community affects people deeply, and how an insular nuclear family can break apart if there's no outside support. "It takes a village to raise a child" is a good aphorism, yet we decided after the war that we didn't need villages anymore since housewives were fated to take on that labor. The world changed, yet this standard still remains.
@selontheweb connected neighborhoods, open doors, and communal kitchens need to happen now even though it's already 50 years too late. How many of us live in buildings of hundreds but don't know our neighbors? Why is it the standard that when we need something, we get it shipped from china to our door and make money for billionaires instead of making it ourselves? The whole thing is broken from the bottom up and we're lonely and depressed because of it.
@selontheweb crush capitalism, dismantle the atomic society and embrace queerness or the grand experiment is over before it could truly begin.
@selontheweb god I hate to keep ranting but you touched a really raw nerve. Fear of mortality comes easily to us, especially if we're queer, because our futures are so uncertain. I won't have children to support me in my old age and our capital-based society dictates that we'll only be able to survive and sustain ourselves in old age if we can pay someone to do it for us. There's no longer any social support outside of begging for spare change. We're gonna die young.
not everyone should have children in hopes they'll be obligated to care for them in old age! we used to have communities for that.
some people are comfortable staying home a lot. they may not be hunter-gathering, but they keep home safe and cared for
@caymanwent @selontheweb i could go on for so much longer but i know you get the point. we're sold a very artificial way of being, one where everyone must pretend to stand alone. get your own job, your own home, be responsible for the entire course of your life. if you succeed it's all your doing, act like all the help you were given is stuff you got for yourself. fail and it's all your fault, regardless of circumstances
@caymanwent @selontheweb we are isolated from each other by design to trap us in the capitalist machine. women used to be forced into the role of domestic labour which capitalism exploited to get men to work harder. the domestic family was a way to enforce that. families used to live together longer and withmore generations under one roof, but people were sold the idea each nuclear family should have its own house to sell more houses
now we are so far removed from what humans were like in our natural state that everyone has a thoroughly warped idea of what human nature is
not saying natural = better, but i hate how people act like the nuclear family, everyone having to make it on their own, etc is seen as inherent
@Yza @selontheweb the atomization of society that bloomed in the west around the time of the industrial revolution will be its downfall. Pithy platitudes about self-reliance have replaced self-determination as support structures were stripped away and reliance on a corporate master for one's wellbeing replaced community support and communal sufficiency. All of our values are screwy and yet we still shrug and resign ourselves to "that's the way it is" instead of questioning them.
@caymanwent @Yza @selontheweb what's funny is many conservatives would fully agree that multi-generational houses and not relying on government/corporate programs to live is a superior way of living that builds community strength. The main disagreement I think between left and right is whether kids should be *forced* to stay, or whether family units should be *forced* to support non-family neighbors.
@wilbr my cynicism leads me to think that conservative feelings toward this are rooted deeply in control and ingroups. conservatives favour social heirarchies that let them trap and control their peers. they also would hate to be responsible at all for outgroups. Also I find conservatives are very arbitrary on whether or not they have govt programs based on what suits them. $1b on healthcare is bad, $7t on war is fine and good
@wilbr and i think the left generally approves af govt programs, so long as they are universal, fair, community focused and not a weak patchwork attempts to plaster over a failing system
Idk, i just feel like conservative and leftest view on this are generally very different
however, bernie is the most popular dem candidate with both the left and the right, which demonstrates these ideals can be bridged somewhat and hopefully some can be lead down a better path
@Yza for sure. I just mean "hey let's have multi-generational houses again" is likely to be a popular conservative platform. If anything it'll take more work to convince millennials to move back in with and rehabilitate their boomer parents. And of course co-living / communes / polyamory is the leftist "chosen family" equivalent...
@wilbr chosen family is important. i'd love for giving people more freedom to find and form their own to be supported
@Yza @selontheweb that's why news stories like "brilliant entrepreneur starts a multi-million dollar business with small $100,000 from their parents" piss me off so much. I know far too many intelligent and motivated people who have to give up on their dreams because capitalism is designed to extract as much labor from people with as little compensation as possible just to keep them alive. You can only be fulfilled if you start ten spaces ahead of everyone else.
but i do keep coming back to what i feel is the central reason for why people don't see it: they suffer less under this system than other people do and they are too attached to being higher on the heirarchy than someone else to want to risk that relative superiority and power
@selontheweb I’m always furious when it’s insinuated that when I’m struggling with executive functioning it’s because I’m not an ‘adult’. Having a neurological disorder doesn’t make me a fucking child
@selontheweb This is beautiful, thanks.
@romrom my pleasure
@selontheweb All true enough, butI don’t quite understand where the disapproval is coming from? (And it looks like you’re positioning “adulting” as something mostly cis men talk about, which isn’t my experience.)
@ghost_bird my disapproval is with the fact that adulting becomes a self-fulfilling recursive nightmare. it papers over a void in our understanding of why the world is the way that it is and perpetuates it, leading to more burnout, more adulting t-shirts.
@selontheweb I guess my take is that most of this work will still need doing after the Revolution and it’s good to have it acknowledged and appreciated, but also that it’s OK to find “adulting” annoyingly cutesy without building a whole theoretical framework in justification.
@selontheweb 40 hours a day is a bit of a stretch
@deshipu typo buddy it's ok it won't hurt you
I can't wait to give up on the current system! let's show our politicians a brickload of "real change you can believe in"
@uuim now we're talkin
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